HeraldNet: County official's alleged intoxication at fatal crash site under investigation

The medical examiner's office wonders how its investigator could have been intoxicated three hours after his shift began

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Coroner Office Managers Should Be CITED for being asleep at the Wheel
The Chief Investigator at the Snohomish Coroner is Alfred Noriega. He is paid over 75K per year to manage 6 investigators.

Alfred moved from the King County coroner a year ago. There, he directly supervised investigators at King County and this particularly tragic incident occurred during his employment and reflects his management style:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008094645_medrugs06m0.html

At the Snohomish Coroner, Alfred's sole responsibility is to supervise 6 investigators. Alfred works very closely with these investigators on a day by day basis. How could a manager be so oblivious to an employee's behavior? He is a medico-legal investigator and by definition should be acutely aware of the nuances of human behavior. Seriously, there were no tell tale signs that this was brewing (no pun intended)?

Then there is the deputy director of the Snohomish Coroner, Carolyn Sanden. She is paid over 95K per year to manage 2 front office staff. She is tasked with producing an annual report for the office. I have tried to request the annual report for the last 4 years but was told that it hasn't been completed since she has been employed by the coroner in 2002 (check their website to see the last report in 2002 at:

http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Departments/Medical_Examiner/About/Annual+Report.htm

The Chief Medical Examiner, Norman Thiersch, is the highest paid Snohomish County employee with an annual 200K. I know little about him. I would assume he is responsible for the work product of both Carolyn and Alfred.

These three "managers" are responsible for a mere 9 employees.

Ultimately, shouldn't the investigation be focused on the "managers" of this county office? Isn't this investigator's intoxication at the accident scene a symptom of a more serious problem at our Coroner's office? A laissez faire attitude taken by management?

Perhaps these "managers" should be cited for being asleep at the wheel, driven home, and put on administrative leave.

It is time for the Snohomish County Council and Executive's Office to scrutinize this oft ignored county office (and perhaps trim some fat during these lean economic times). Could there be some irregularities in this departments hiring practices?
William Frank | Dec 3, 2009 1:54 pm | 2 replies | Request removal

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Re: Coroner Office Managers Should Be CITED for being asleep at the Wheel
I agree with you 100 percent! Anyone else with a soul would look at this job as an opportunity to help other people. Al and Arleigh look at it as a way to stuff themselves at the public trough. The job is not so tough that it could not be done for lots less money. You're right about the organization being top heavy. Three workers for every manager is a joke at best and an abomination to say the least. Lots of people have done this job for alot less money and behaved ethically at the same time.
Moral Standards | Dec 03, 2009 4:15 pm | Request removal

Re: Coroner Office Managers Should Be CITED for being asleep at the Wheel
So what do we get for the $300,000 we are paying Carolyn S. and Dr. Tiersch? Aparently we do not get employees willing or able to do the jobs they are hired to perform. There are three supervisors in the Medical Examinor's office for nine employees, yet an employee they are tasked with supervising is drunk on the job. How often is he drunk? Is he drunk so often that they just didn't notice? How does a drunk perform at the scene of a death? What if it is a crime scene? A homocide? What if he screws up or looses evidence? How does the prosecutor feel about the strength of his case if the investigator was drunk at the scene? I bet defense attorneys are delighted to find that the Medical Examinor's office is stirring a cauldron of reasonable doubt for their clients. If Carolyn S. and Dr Tiersch are so oblivious that they cannot see a drunk right in front of them what else have they missed?
I must say I was not reasured with Carolyn's statement that the matter is being investigated in house. The problem developed and festered in the Medical Examinor's house. The Medical Examinor didn't see any problem with sending a drunk out on the road to investigate a horific drunk driving accident. Why should we believe the Medical Examinor is capable of conducting an investigation into the matter?
I think it is time for an honest investigation of the Medical Examinor's office conducted by a qualified outside investigator from the Sheriff's Office or the County prosecutor.
Lilus Sherman | Dec 04, 2009 12:02 am | Request removal

Calm down Digger
When I was in college 20+ years ago I was arrested for DUI, cited for neg driving (not DUI) and given a ride home. Special treatment for college students? I doubt it.

Like the other person stated, he is likely to lose his job. Where in the private sector is that the case?
I TK | Dec 2, 2009 8:09 am | 1 replies | Request removal

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Re: Calm down Digger
Well I can tell you that my employer would fire me in a minute and I would fire any employee (that I supervise) if they showed up drunk at a job site. So I guess what I'm trying to say that this is common practice in the private sector. This guy just can't see when he has a good job!
Moral Standards | Dec 03, 2009 4:22 pm | Request removal

LOL!
Oh man, that's rich! A LEO telling us he frequently drives DUI offenders home. Yep, sure, hear about it every day! Where are the stats, Tom P? Since you are obviously in the know, tell us where we can find the stats on DUI offenders who are not arrested and thrown in jail at the time of their citation.

I also suspect that I TK and R A are also LEOs, as evidenced by that remarkable style they have of being condescending towards others.

Q: Like the other person stated, he is likely to lose his job. Where in the private sector is that the case?

A: IF, in the private sector, a person arrives to work legally drunk,(JUST like the ME) yes, s/he gets fired. If this ME were to get a DUI citation while on his own time, he too, would not be fired. So, your argument and logic don't hold up too well here...actually, it doesn't hold up at all.

Q: Considering he will probably get fired, what else were you looking for?

A: Equal application of the law. Simple, huh?

Claim: When I was in college 20+ years ago I was arrested for DUI, cited for neg driving (not DUI) and given a ride home. Special treatment for college students? I doubt it.

Well, this may be true if this incident happened years ago. As LE routinely handled DUIs this way. See Tom P's comment. So, unless this happened recently, it really has no bearing on this particular case whatsoever. As you stated, that was 20+ years ago.

Also, given I suspect you are also a LEO pretending to be Joe Citizen, the public DOES realize that law enforcement has the legal right to lie to citizens at ANY time with NO penalty.

Either way, it doesn't look like your story really disputes Digger's or George's comment one bit.

Q: When is the last time you EVER heard of John Q. Public being stopped for a DUI and the cop just giving them a ride home?

A: Never. At least not in the past two decades. Again, if Tom P can't show us the stats on DUI offenders being driven home and not thrown into jail and given he is entitled to lie to citizens, I say it's just bunk. And a way to try to normalize this incident. The worst part is they insult us by telling us things like they routinely play taxi service for drunks.

Q: Why are public employees automatically put on "paid administrative leave" when they are being accused of blantant wrong doing?

A: That way they can have their "investigation" - which, if you've noticed, almost always takes way longer when LEOs are accused of doing something wrong than regular citizens - that way it falls out of the news cycle and fades from memory in the general public. They cover each other's backside like this all the time.

Statement: "Before you stop dragging your knuckles on the ground to beat your chest about things you know nothing of, you might want to do your homework."

Response: Nice, officer, real nice! How about some respect for those who pay your salary? Or how about just showing some respect to a fellow human being?

You resort to name-calling because Digger and George have made some points that you can't answer honestly. Why else the sophomoric behavior?

At the very least, you don't deserve to be serving the public with that type of attitude. Your capability to go off on someone like that shows your immaturity and lack of respect for your fellow citizens.

Since you've intimated that you have done your homework, (demonstrated by your language in attacking Digger) I eagerly await your report back on where arrest records can verify your claims, sir.

Thank you.

Have a nice day.
Linton Dawson | Dec 2, 2009 3:50 pm | 4 replies | Request removal

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Re: LOL!
get a life would ya? sheesh, if you people spent more time doing something constructive then arguing on these stupid websites, your yard and house may not look like the dump it is...btw,,in the 15 or 20 minutes it took you to write that stupid response, you could have been at the gym losing some of that holiday weight...besides, Tom P is retired from LE and the other two "suspected" LE's response is not condecending at all...we must have read different responses...
Omar Bradley | Dec 03, 2009 9:54 am | Request removal

Re: LOL!
Furthermore Ms Dawson, if a LE is caught driving off duty while intoxicate, they are held accountable, i.e. disciplined, up to and including termination. and yes, sometimes people are charged and driven home, they still have to answer in court, get a life would ya and stop complaining about all the manufactured injustices in the world and release most of the time, its just people being people, on all levels...you problably are the type who would help the monforts and clemmons of the world...prob. even marry them while they are incarcerated...and no, im not LE...im a firefighter...
Omar Bradley | Dec 03, 2009 10:27 am | Request removal

Re: LOL!
A firefighter defending cops...never heard of that before either!

Your post is nothing short of trash. Too bad you can't comprehend the points made.....then again, that's why you're a firefighter, right? B/C your level of mentality and maturity wouldn't allow you to do anything else.

Show us the records where DUI offenders are driven home by LEO and you'll make your point.

Otherwise, you're just lying like the others. In short, Mr. Whipple, put up or shut up.

You are nothing short of a punk. BTW, looks like you spend more time than I on these boards arguing your points. So maybe you are the one who needs a life?

And insulting my home and personal appearance? WOW! Are you a tough little 2nd grader, aren't you?!!!

ROFLMAO!

What a punk......
Linton Dawson | Dec 03, 2009 12:04 pm | Request removal

Re: LOL!
"you problably are the type who would help the monforts and clemmons of the world...prob. even marry them while they are incarcerated" - C. Whipple

BTW, kiss our annual donation to the Firefighters goodbye, punk. I plan on contacting the Fire Dept to let them know your post has cost them our annual Holiday donation forever b/c of punks like you being employed by ANY fire dept.

I'm sure they'll be pleased with your loud, crass mouth when I direct them to your comments made here.

Have a nice day.
Linton Dawson | Dec 03, 2009 12:19 pm | Request removal

This calls his competence in ALL past cases into question!
Every case that this M.E. has made decisions about needs to be re investigated. Was he drunk on the job frequently? This could be quite catastrophic for prior cases that this person has been involved with! Or will it all just be quietly swept under the proverbial rug like it seems as if most issues such as this are... What a travesty, the worst alcohol related accident in Snohomish County history and the M.E. shows up drunk driving a county vehicle acting in his official capacity... And he gets a nice warm ride home... What a slap in the face to law abiding citizens everywhere!
DiGGer Don | Dec 3, 2009 12:16 am | 0 replies | Request removal

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Management Is Asleep At the Wheel
The Chief Investigator at the Snohomish Coroner is Alfred Noriega. He is paid over 75K per year to manage 6 investigators (including the investigator in question) and 1 autopsy staff.

Alfred moved from the King County coroner a year ago. He directly supervised the investigators at King County and this King County incident resulted from his management style: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008094645_medrugs06m0.html

Alfred is now the supervising investigator at Snohomish County Coroner and the now the County has an incident involving an intoxicated investigator.

The administrator of the Snohomish Coroner is Carolyn Sanden. She is paid over 95K per year to manage 2 front office staff. She is tasked with producing an annual report for the office. I have tried to request the annual report for the last 4 years but was told that it hasn't been completed since she has been employed by the coroner in 2004.

The Chief Medical Examiner, Norman Thiersch, is the highest paid Snohomish County employee with an annual 200K.

These three individuals make up the "management" of this office. This boils down to one "manager" for every three bargaining unit positions (3 "managers" and 9 non-management positions).

Ultimately, shouldn't the investigation be focused on the "managers" of this county office?

Perhaps these "managers" should be cited for being asleep at the wheel, driven home, and put on administrative leave.

Isn't this investigator's intoxication at the accident scene a symptom of a more serious problem at our Coroner's office? A laissez faire attitude taken by management?

This is a wonderful opportunity to legitimize scrutiny of this oft ignored county office (and perhaps trim some fat during these lean economic times).
William Frank | Dec 2, 2009 4:48 pm | 0 replies | Request removal

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GIVEN A RIDE HOME!!!!!!!!!
It just makes me SICK how that there is one set of laws for the general public and another set for police and county, state workers... A cop shoots a man in the back 7 times and its called MANSLAUGHTER! ANYONE else and it would be 1st or at the very least 2nd degree MURDER! Now you have this CLOWN driving around drunk while on duty and HE GETS A RIDE HOME FROM THE COPS!!!! When is the last time you EVER heard of John Q. Public being stopped for a DUI and the cop just giving them a ride home? I wonder if they tucked him all nice and cozy in his bed also... Just makes me sick to my stomach, just because they wear a badge doesnt make them any less accountable to the SAME LAWS as everyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DiGGer Don | Dec 2, 2009 5:31 am | 2 replies | Request removal

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Re: GIVEN A RIDE HOME!!!!!!!!!
FYI A LOT of police departments don't take a DUI suspect to jail, in fact most don't. It's called "arrest and release". That way departments don't have to pay the Snohomish County Jail to house them overnight. The thing is the DUI suspect will spend one night in jail regardless. So they figure when they have to show up to court they'll stay that night anyway on Snoho County dollar instead of theirs. I don't think this guy got any extra treatment. In fact they could have just drove him home and not arrested him, cited him and released him--but they did. If anything he'll get the book thrown at him harder because of his job, and what he did.
Jack E | Dec 02, 2009 11:49 am | Request removal

Re: GIVEN A RIDE HOME!!!!!!!!!
He was called a cab, not driven home by the cops, which he paid for out of his own pocket. This is very common and what most DUIs experience. The already taxed resources were probably needed for the the more serious crime.
Bill King | Dec 02, 2009 2:41 pm | Request removal

Paid Leave?
Why are public employees automatically put on "paid administrative leave" when they are being accused of blantant wrong doing?
All pay should be with held until the investigation is over, then only if the person is cleared of ALL charges he can file for back pay.
How much is this investigator going to collect from us the taxpayers while he sits at home, until he is finally fired for his actions? How much did Craig Ladiser collect in the two months from the time he committed his lewd act, while acting as a public employee, until he was canned?
How long are we the taxpayers going to put up with this nonsense?
George Schlosser | Dec 2, 2009 8:43 am | 2 replies | Request removal

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Re: Paid Leave?
As we live in a country where we are innocent until proven guilty, the real stupidity is not making this guy show and work for his public-funds paycheck. If he has to prove he is sober while at work, so be it. But letting him stay home while getting a pay check is indeed silly and irresponsible.
Ken Cox | Dec 02, 2009 12:15 pm | Request removal

Re: Paid Leave?
Did you read the last line completely? It said he is on leave, no one stated he is on paid leave. Several times DUI drivers are taken home by the police because jail space is limited by others. I think a little more research before speaking is better than ranting and raving at something you are not even sure of the circumstances.
Sheryl Moss | Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm | Request removal

(No heading)
Digger Don:

I frequently give them a ride home if no one is available to pick them up. Frankly, the jail is too full 99.99% of the time to take DUI's. Back in the day, on a busy night most of us were known to do nothing more than take them off the street by giving them a ride home (assuming they weren't involved in an accident or something similar). Had to choose between being tied up with a DUI for 3 hours, or available to respond to assualts and other violent crimes in progress.

Before you stop dragging your knuckles on the ground to beat your chest about things you know nothing of, you might want to do your homework.
Tom P | Dec 2, 2009 9:29 am | 1 replies | Request removal

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Re: (No heading)
What I do know is the "professional courtesy" that many public employees hand out to one another. Like a fireman I know who has been pulled over while drunk and speeding on his Harley many times, but never gets a ticket nor arrested. Having seen this happen once first-hand, I know this fireman is not story telling when he gets drunk in public (I'm certain he is an alcoholic) and brags too much about all the "courtesy" he recieves.

As soon as any person of authority starts picking which rules & laws to follow, or not, and when to apply them, or not, they have become just as much of a sociopath as the criminals are. Many of us have seen too much of this type of hypocricy from public employees and politicians, with it insulting us tremendously, so we get some frustrations expressed at times like this. You may not deserve it, but it is certainly no suprise.
Ken Cox | Dec 02, 2009 12:49 pm | Request removal

Don't have a heart attack Don....
The article said he was cited for DUI, which sounds like what everyone gets. Someone took pity and dropped the guy off at home. Considering he will probably get fired, what else were you looking for?
R A | Dec 2, 2009 7:41 am | 0 replies | Request removal

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